Import Manager
04-24-2004, 07:33 AM
Posted by Captn_Hook on Jan-22-04 at 01:04 PM
LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-04 AT 01:17 PM (PST)
Guys. I have been spending some time now looking at several different year 26 Billfishers and have drawn up a few questions. I saw one the other day that was a 1982 model. One thing I wasnt sure about was why there was a raised (about 2") hatch where I presume the engine resides. All of the other ones I have seen old or new have a flush cockpit deck. Also, on the older models, I have noticed that windows have hairline cracks not only in the window itself but the frames as well. One older one had a 2nd station kind of like Nomads. Wondering if this is something I should consider useful or is this something cost feasable to add later if I decide. Lastly, powerplant differences. What are the differences in these through the years. What is good for this size of boat. One had a 230hp and another I saw had a 160 hp others had a 200hp. Which is best and which one should I try to avoid. Not trying to touch any soft spots here with some of you guys with older Blackmans heck I am one them. This will be a big purchase for me and I really want to educate myself before making the final purchase. Thanks in advance.
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#1, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by moo fish on Jan-22-04 at 04:34 PM
In response to message #0
The lexan windows and vinyl frames crack and graze. The windows and frames on my '79 pilothouse are marginal to say the least. Engines hatches are variable depending on repowers. Spend a lot of time in the bilge.....rt
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#2, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Wizard on Jan-22-04 at 04:50 PM
In response to message #1
LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-04 AT 04:55 PM (PST)
Here are a few things I now know from buying a 1983' Billfisher, and looking at newer ones like Nomad:
- The difference between the 200HP and the 230HP is that the 230HP has a compressor. In English, that means Supercharger (Europeans call them compressors, kinda like the new Mercedez C230 Kompressor car, it's supercharged). They both have turbos.
- It sounds like ALL the older models have windows that are cracked and glazed, frames and plastic, mine as well.
- I think the newer ones have a bit more fuel, older avg = 150 gallons, newer = 165 ??? Someone else has to confirm if true.
- My older one doesn't have the microwave built in the cabinet as I see on Nomad pics.
- My older one has no shelving in the V-Berth. An option or enhancement? I don't know.
- Oh, one more difference. The newer ones have much nicer flybridge inside fiberglass molds for electronic bays. My older one does not. I am considering seeing if those molds fit all years, and get some, someday.
There is a lot more that has not changed, then has, imho.
Just thought I'd take a sec and share what I remember.
Glenn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#4, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Jan-23-04 at 05:38 AM
In response to message #2
Glenn:
Do you have the raised engine box on yours? Does anyone know why this would be or what engine installed would make this necessary. I would want the flush deck. I could see someone triping over that lip very easily. It looked like the bait take was butted up againt it to avoid tripping. I am not sure I would want this. The more I look into the things I want on this boat, I find I need more money to make it happen. Scott: does your boat have the raised engine box? and what year is yours. You found a very clean one indeed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#6, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Yellowfin1 on Jan-27-04 at 12:11 PM
In response to message #4
Hi Doug,
Sorry for not responding earlier. I have actually been working alot (ugghh!) Good questions. No mine does not have the raised lip. Tenaciouis is a 1984 model and is powered by the AQAD 40B. It is turbo charged (165HP) and delivers about 15 knots at cruise at 3400 RPM with the 280 DP Outdrive. This engine has been dis-continued and this has even presented some problems in getting parts on very short notice. Many places don't stock parts for the older engines. Although John or Shirly (at Blackman) can usually get parts in a day or two depending on when you order it. Common replacement parts on my engine have been the impeller and associated seals, and fuel injector lines.
I definitely plan to re-power soon. Tenacious was not very clean when I bought her. She actually was very dirty, even had candy wrapperes and sandwich bags stuffed in several voids. Cosmetically she was a mess. Lots of oxidization on the gelcoat surfaces, the teak looked terrible, and the deck even has a big crack in it where apparently (allegidly) Cogswell Marine dropped the engine on the deck while hastily replacing it after an oil pan replacement or something. Not to mention numerous gelcoat cracks. She also has the old gas stove and no microwave.
So, I've had my hands full but, feel that she is worth the price I paid her for ($46,200) when I consider what a new Billfisher, Skip Jack, or Blackwatch 26 costs. I figure that even after sinking a new engine in her, I'm still only in it for just over 1/2 of the costs of a new comparible boat.
If I had it to do again, I wouldn't change a thing. Billfishers are a great offshore fishing boat and well suited for weekends at the Islands. A used Billfisher will cost significantly less than any new comparible boat and you can trailer it which is my biggest prerequisite for a boat. I can't really afford slip fees and all that goes with keeping a boat in a slip. Besides with the Blackman community to assist, you have alot of free help. Feel free to come over and check her out anytime.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#3, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Saltwaters on Jan-22-04 at 10:07 PM
In response to message #0
I'll make a comment on the powerplants. I prefer more horsepower than not enough. Most guys bought the 41 series motor at 200 hp than the 42 or 43 series motor with 230 hp. Reliability seems to be the biggest reason. The early 42 series had a lot of problems. Having both a turbo and superchager makes for a much more comlex engine that is more expensive to maintain. Most guys go for lower hp but simplier design.
I repowered from 41A to Yanmar 240. I am happy with the performance but I wish I had another 50 to 70 hp so I could cruise faster than 20 kts. The inboard powered boats are slower than the I/O boats but inboard is more reliable and cheaper to maintain than I/O when slipped in the harbor.
If I was building a 26 today, I would opt for inboard power and a Yanmar 315 hp and have it underpropped so the engine wouldn't work hard. This boat would go fast when you can go fast and get great fuel economy.
Bill on Tunacious
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#5, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Wizard on Jan-23-04 at 08:17 AM
In response to message #3
Doug,
My cockpit has no raised lip around the engine box. The boat was repowered in 1992, going from an AD40 to the AD42 engine. There is a tiny bit of modification under the engine cover that carved out a notch so the lid does not rest on the turbocharger, but that is about it. The 42 motor is a tight fit in the original box. I don't know what motor would require any raised lip. The whole idea behind the low gunnels/gunnel rails on a Blackman is a trade-off to get a nice big flat open cockpit imho.
Glenn
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#7, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Jan-28-04 at 01:20 PM
In response to message #5
The boat with the raised lip was a 1982 (same as the hook) that is on yachtworld.com. The guy is asking 60k for this boat pretty much the standard price I am getting around town regardless of the age. So, if I am going to have to shell out 60k, I want the newest one possible. Glassed flush decks, 230hp motor( not that important), kept on the trailer (upgraded galvanized model) maybe evan some updated windows. It would be hard to shell out that kind of cash for a boat that is 20 years old. You guys that got yours in the 40k range really scored from what I can see. Also, the selection is slim out there. Most guys have these boats going through a broker that raises the price evan higher. Still lookin!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#8, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Sleigher on Jan-28-04 at 02:46 PM
In response to message #7
If someone waved 65K under my nose I might consider parting with the Longfin.
I'm not looking to sell her but there are times when I think about it.
You would be hard pressed to find a nicer better equipped Blackman.
Peter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#9, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by scottc on Jan-28-04 at 09:21 PM
In response to message #7
A Blackman Billfisher 26 with a "raised lip" enginge hatch, would have been built prior to the use of a cockpit "liner", that was designed as a "one size fits all" for all of the engine combinations (an exception could be the inboard models) the Blackman yard offered. The "liner" was implemented around 1984 or 1985 and continues to be used on the current models.
Hope this helps.
Scott
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#10, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Jan-29-04 at 05:40 AM
In response to message #9
Thanks Scott and Peter. Peter, that is what I am saying here. Maybe people arent chopping at the bit to sell but if someone wants to wave that magic number of green backs around, a sale can be made. Makes me sick that I missed out on the Sea Hawk. That boat was a score! I will keep looking. Thanks for the input.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#11, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Yellowfin1 on Jan-30-04 at 12:29 PM
In response to message #10
Doug,
Is the vessel in question the S Chief? If so it looks just very much like Tenacious except cleaner.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#12, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Feb-02-04 at 06:23 AM
In response to message #11
Yup scott. The boat I was looking at was the Chief. Do you have the raised hatch on your boat too? Just wondering if that would be a hassle tripping over.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#13, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by SBSRF on Feb-02-04 at 01:19 PM
In response to message #12
Doug, Grebe is a an 84 with a flush deck. I have some pics i can send you or better yet I'll meet you at the dock. I'm looking at 60,000 firm with no broker. Survey done 9/03. Boat and trailer are virtually new.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#14, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Feb-02-04 at 01:30 PM
In response to message #13
Steve thanks. Email me some pics if you can for starters. I would need to show them to my wife. After that, we can set up a time to check it out. Let me know if that is cool with you. Email to:
Doug.Medve@pyxis.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#15, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by SBSRF on Feb-04-04 at 06:00 PM
In response to message #14
Doug, I tried to send you 2 emails containing zip files of 1.47mb and 3.49mb. They came back undeliverable, pyxis saying they might contain virus. I sent both of these to another email address of mine as a test and they came through ok. Do you want me to down size pics and send them attached opened? I'm new to all of this, if there is a better way let me know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#16, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Feb-05-04 at 01:35 PM
In response to message #15
Sorry about that Steve. My work shut down zip files because of that last virus. Send them to Medve1@san.rr.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-04 AT 01:17 PM (PST)
Guys. I have been spending some time now looking at several different year 26 Billfishers and have drawn up a few questions. I saw one the other day that was a 1982 model. One thing I wasnt sure about was why there was a raised (about 2") hatch where I presume the engine resides. All of the other ones I have seen old or new have a flush cockpit deck. Also, on the older models, I have noticed that windows have hairline cracks not only in the window itself but the frames as well. One older one had a 2nd station kind of like Nomads. Wondering if this is something I should consider useful or is this something cost feasable to add later if I decide. Lastly, powerplant differences. What are the differences in these through the years. What is good for this size of boat. One had a 230hp and another I saw had a 160 hp others had a 200hp. Which is best and which one should I try to avoid. Not trying to touch any soft spots here with some of you guys with older Blackmans heck I am one them. This will be a big purchase for me and I really want to educate myself before making the final purchase. Thanks in advance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by moo fish on Jan-22-04 at 04:34 PM
In response to message #0
The lexan windows and vinyl frames crack and graze. The windows and frames on my '79 pilothouse are marginal to say the least. Engines hatches are variable depending on repowers. Spend a lot of time in the bilge.....rt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#2, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Wizard on Jan-22-04 at 04:50 PM
In response to message #1
LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-04 AT 04:55 PM (PST)
Here are a few things I now know from buying a 1983' Billfisher, and looking at newer ones like Nomad:
- The difference between the 200HP and the 230HP is that the 230HP has a compressor. In English, that means Supercharger (Europeans call them compressors, kinda like the new Mercedez C230 Kompressor car, it's supercharged). They both have turbos.
- It sounds like ALL the older models have windows that are cracked and glazed, frames and plastic, mine as well.
- I think the newer ones have a bit more fuel, older avg = 150 gallons, newer = 165 ??? Someone else has to confirm if true.
- My older one doesn't have the microwave built in the cabinet as I see on Nomad pics.
- My older one has no shelving in the V-Berth. An option or enhancement? I don't know.
- Oh, one more difference. The newer ones have much nicer flybridge inside fiberglass molds for electronic bays. My older one does not. I am considering seeing if those molds fit all years, and get some, someday.
There is a lot more that has not changed, then has, imho.
Just thought I'd take a sec and share what I remember.
Glenn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#4, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Jan-23-04 at 05:38 AM
In response to message #2
Glenn:
Do you have the raised engine box on yours? Does anyone know why this would be or what engine installed would make this necessary. I would want the flush deck. I could see someone triping over that lip very easily. It looked like the bait take was butted up againt it to avoid tripping. I am not sure I would want this. The more I look into the things I want on this boat, I find I need more money to make it happen. Scott: does your boat have the raised engine box? and what year is yours. You found a very clean one indeed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#6, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Yellowfin1 on Jan-27-04 at 12:11 PM
In response to message #4
Hi Doug,
Sorry for not responding earlier. I have actually been working alot (ugghh!) Good questions. No mine does not have the raised lip. Tenaciouis is a 1984 model and is powered by the AQAD 40B. It is turbo charged (165HP) and delivers about 15 knots at cruise at 3400 RPM with the 280 DP Outdrive. This engine has been dis-continued and this has even presented some problems in getting parts on very short notice. Many places don't stock parts for the older engines. Although John or Shirly (at Blackman) can usually get parts in a day or two depending on when you order it. Common replacement parts on my engine have been the impeller and associated seals, and fuel injector lines.
I definitely plan to re-power soon. Tenacious was not very clean when I bought her. She actually was very dirty, even had candy wrapperes and sandwich bags stuffed in several voids. Cosmetically she was a mess. Lots of oxidization on the gelcoat surfaces, the teak looked terrible, and the deck even has a big crack in it where apparently (allegidly) Cogswell Marine dropped the engine on the deck while hastily replacing it after an oil pan replacement or something. Not to mention numerous gelcoat cracks. She also has the old gas stove and no microwave.
So, I've had my hands full but, feel that she is worth the price I paid her for ($46,200) when I consider what a new Billfisher, Skip Jack, or Blackwatch 26 costs. I figure that even after sinking a new engine in her, I'm still only in it for just over 1/2 of the costs of a new comparible boat.
If I had it to do again, I wouldn't change a thing. Billfishers are a great offshore fishing boat and well suited for weekends at the Islands. A used Billfisher will cost significantly less than any new comparible boat and you can trailer it which is my biggest prerequisite for a boat. I can't really afford slip fees and all that goes with keeping a boat in a slip. Besides with the Blackman community to assist, you have alot of free help. Feel free to come over and check her out anytime.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#3, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Saltwaters on Jan-22-04 at 10:07 PM
In response to message #0
I'll make a comment on the powerplants. I prefer more horsepower than not enough. Most guys bought the 41 series motor at 200 hp than the 42 or 43 series motor with 230 hp. Reliability seems to be the biggest reason. The early 42 series had a lot of problems. Having both a turbo and superchager makes for a much more comlex engine that is more expensive to maintain. Most guys go for lower hp but simplier design.
I repowered from 41A to Yanmar 240. I am happy with the performance but I wish I had another 50 to 70 hp so I could cruise faster than 20 kts. The inboard powered boats are slower than the I/O boats but inboard is more reliable and cheaper to maintain than I/O when slipped in the harbor.
If I was building a 26 today, I would opt for inboard power and a Yanmar 315 hp and have it underpropped so the engine wouldn't work hard. This boat would go fast when you can go fast and get great fuel economy.
Bill on Tunacious
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#5, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Wizard on Jan-23-04 at 08:17 AM
In response to message #3
Doug,
My cockpit has no raised lip around the engine box. The boat was repowered in 1992, going from an AD40 to the AD42 engine. There is a tiny bit of modification under the engine cover that carved out a notch so the lid does not rest on the turbocharger, but that is about it. The 42 motor is a tight fit in the original box. I don't know what motor would require any raised lip. The whole idea behind the low gunnels/gunnel rails on a Blackman is a trade-off to get a nice big flat open cockpit imho.
Glenn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#7, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Jan-28-04 at 01:20 PM
In response to message #5
The boat with the raised lip was a 1982 (same as the hook) that is on yachtworld.com. The guy is asking 60k for this boat pretty much the standard price I am getting around town regardless of the age. So, if I am going to have to shell out 60k, I want the newest one possible. Glassed flush decks, 230hp motor( not that important), kept on the trailer (upgraded galvanized model) maybe evan some updated windows. It would be hard to shell out that kind of cash for a boat that is 20 years old. You guys that got yours in the 40k range really scored from what I can see. Also, the selection is slim out there. Most guys have these boats going through a broker that raises the price evan higher. Still lookin!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#8, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Sleigher on Jan-28-04 at 02:46 PM
In response to message #7
If someone waved 65K under my nose I might consider parting with the Longfin.
I'm not looking to sell her but there are times when I think about it.
You would be hard pressed to find a nicer better equipped Blackman.
Peter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#9, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by scottc on Jan-28-04 at 09:21 PM
In response to message #7
A Blackman Billfisher 26 with a "raised lip" enginge hatch, would have been built prior to the use of a cockpit "liner", that was designed as a "one size fits all" for all of the engine combinations (an exception could be the inboard models) the Blackman yard offered. The "liner" was implemented around 1984 or 1985 and continues to be used on the current models.
Hope this helps.
Scott
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#10, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Jan-29-04 at 05:40 AM
In response to message #9
Thanks Scott and Peter. Peter, that is what I am saying here. Maybe people arent chopping at the bit to sell but if someone wants to wave that magic number of green backs around, a sale can be made. Makes me sick that I missed out on the Sea Hawk. That boat was a score! I will keep looking. Thanks for the input.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#11, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Yellowfin1 on Jan-30-04 at 12:29 PM
In response to message #10
Doug,
Is the vessel in question the S Chief? If so it looks just very much like Tenacious except cleaner.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#12, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Feb-02-04 at 06:23 AM
In response to message #11
Yup scott. The boat I was looking at was the Chief. Do you have the raised hatch on your boat too? Just wondering if that would be a hassle tripping over.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#13, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by SBSRF on Feb-02-04 at 01:19 PM
In response to message #12
Doug, Grebe is a an 84 with a flush deck. I have some pics i can send you or better yet I'll meet you at the dock. I'm looking at 60,000 firm with no broker. Survey done 9/03. Boat and trailer are virtually new.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#14, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Feb-02-04 at 01:30 PM
In response to message #13
Steve thanks. Email me some pics if you can for starters. I would need to show them to my wife. After that, we can set up a time to check it out. Let me know if that is cool with you. Email to:
Doug.Medve@pyxis.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#15, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by SBSRF on Feb-04-04 at 06:00 PM
In response to message #14
Doug, I tried to send you 2 emails containing zip files of 1.47mb and 3.49mb. They came back undeliverable, pyxis saying they might contain virus. I sent both of these to another email address of mine as a test and they came through ok. Do you want me to down size pics and send them attached opened? I'm new to all of this, if there is a better way let me know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#16, RE: Differences in the Blackman 26
Posted by Captn_Hook on Feb-05-04 at 01:35 PM
In response to message #15
Sorry about that Steve. My work shut down zip files because of that last virus. Send them to Medve1@san.rr.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------