Plastic Box Below Alternator
#0, Plastic box below Alternator???
Posted by Wizard on Jan-11-04 at 05:42 PM
What exactly is the plastic box below the alternator on a 26' Billfisher (1983) with a AD42 motor????
Apparently I still have a significant leak on the boat. Significant enough that when the bilge pumps aren't working, you go down to the slip a week later and find 5" of water in the boat (yes, cuddy too). Well, that wouldn't do, so I immediately decided to pull her out of the water to clean her up and do some leak finding and bilge pump replacement. I got down there this morning only to find I had zero power to the key switch. No up/down on outdrive, no gauges, no start. Only had house battery power. An hour later, testing voltage all over the place, tracing wires, I find a connection (major 6 gauge red wire from starter and alternator) on this plastic box under the alternator corroded completely through. Another hour of properly stripping back all the corroded wire and digging up proper connectors, liquid electrical taping, etc, I have power back.
So, the question is, this plastic box is sealed, screwed to a stringer under the alternator, and was very wet. What exactly is it? Has grounds on it, and the major red power wires from the starter and alternator. Galvanic isolator in a plastic housing? A relay? Reverse current isolation?
Also, any good places to get a new alternator? It was wet and I don't think it works now according to the voltmeter (boat really needs an amp gauge). I have gone to PG Electric in the past, but thought I'd ask here in case someone has the ticket suggestion.
Later.
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#1, RE: Plastic box below Alternator???
Posted by NoSlack on Jan-11-04 at 06:36 PM
In response to message #0
A relay and some connections mounted that low in the bilge doesn't sound like factory work to me. I bet someone did some creative wiring when they installed the 43.
There are only 2 relays on the 40 and they are mounted in front of the valve cover under a plastic cover. The relays are for the glow plugs and the started.
Take your alternator down to P&G Auto by the trolley center down town and they'll hook you up with a high output unit for a fair price.
Give the post titled "Alternator Output" a read. I posted all the info on wiring and prices there last month.
http://www.followingsea2.net/dcforum...umID11/43.html
If you need any help remember I'm an electrician by trade and a Blackman owner by choice.
Mike
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#2, RE: Plastic box below Alternator???
Posted by DOGHOUSE26 on Jan-11-04 at 09:09 PM
In response to message #1
The Blackman shop uses Broadway Auto Electric off Lemon Grove Ave. and I have had good experiences with them and PG.
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#3, Don't plan on any service from Blackman's these days!!
Posted by Wizard on Jan-12-04 at 02:06 PM
In response to message #2
Apparently business is so good, they are building 5 new boats at the same time and turning some/many/me down for outdrive service (or any service for that matter). I guess I learn how to do it myself or find another yard.
I was going to ask some questions (pick their brain) about that plastic black box, and some questions to help troubleshoot the leak, but after Shirley told me they were turning everyone down for service work because the new owners want their boats, I didn't bother taking the conversation further. &%$#*%$#@#$% is all I have to say.
Who else does certified Volvo/Penta work?
1. Need annual outdrive service (boot, oil)
2. Need outdrive stuff checked for possible leaks and maybe even new bolts installed.
3. Need to just do it myself and not rely on anyone else, like so many things these days.
I bought a Blackman because of quality and hoped the resources behind it were better then some cheap ass Seaswirl/Bayliner Dealer mill. Quality I got...
/rant off
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#4, RE: Don't plan on any service from Blackman's these day
Posted by moo fish on Jan-12-04 at 05:44 PM
In response to message #3
Just a couple of suggestions---good diesel, outdrive mechanics are tough to find. Check the bulletin board at Quiveras--mechanics leave their business cards. Cogswell in National City works on VP's but no first hand knowledge. Butch at Oceanside Marine is really good but maybe too far a haul. No Slack Mike is the MASTER MECHANIC. Get a Clyber manual for the outdrive. Anybody that is doing any work on a 280DP, give me a shout. I will swamp to see what going on.....rt
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#5, RE: Don't plan on any service from Blackman's these day
Posted by NoSlack on Jan-12-04 at 06:46 PM
In response to message #4
I stuck a DP lower end on my 280 over the holidays.
$2900 for the drive
$600 for props
$80 for the new style exhaust belows
1-2 hours to intall it
What else do you need to know?
Mike
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#6, RE: Plastic box below Alternator???
Posted by Hijole on Jan-12-04 at 07:28 PM
In response to message #0
The Hijole is an 88 so it may not be the same black box. In 88 when I had a LORAN, Don installed a noise filter to block the noise caused by the aleternator. When I added the GPS I removed it.
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#7, BLACK BOX MYSTERY SOLVED!!!
Posted by Wizard on Jan-12-04 at 10:32 PM
In response to message #6
Damn! I just got back in the garage, boat all buttoned up, after laying out in the cold removing the alternator and the mystery black box. I was looking forward to coming in here to say:
"The Black Box was a NewMar 80Amp High Capacitance Alternator Noise Filter" (and man was it destroyed, drilled out the rivets and a quart of corrosion gunk oozed out)
But I laugh and say damn, cuz HiJole nailed it. Good job. Nice knowing some things are similar with Blackman's.
I was going to install a new one (not where some rocket scientist put it that low in the bilge), but after reading what HiJole says about it being for the Loran, I believe that is all it was for. I also no longer have a Loran. I traced one of the large grounds from the noise filter to a grounding block under the dash, and the grounds go no where now(I assume to the old Loran).
Ok, tomorrow is a trip to PG Auto Electric with the alternator. Old one is only a 50Amp, so it needed improving anyhow. Not sure I want to do the new style NoSlack talks about. Probably would if I understood what wire to remove and what to do more.
Later.
Wizard (Glenn)
"The Reel One"
26' Billfisher
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#8, new alternator
Posted by NoSlack on Jan-13-04 at 05:21 PM
In response to message #7
I found a new one at http://store.wardmarine.com/Merchant...egory_Code=ALT for $299.
Mike
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#9, RE: new alternator
Posted by Wizard on Jan-13-04 at 06:59 PM
In response to message #8
What is your opinion on this find?:
MES Marine OEM Model (55 Amp):
http://www.mesmarine.com/3141m.html
Or this small upgrade in a 61 Amp:
http://www.mesmarine.com/3141m-d.html
Found the second one (61 AMP model) at shipstore.com for $181.02 (plus shipping): http://www.shipstore.com/ss/html/MES/MES3141MD.html
But I am not sure the this second model has the same exact mounting lugs.
Wizard
"The Reel One"
26' Billfisher
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#10, RE: new alternator
Posted by NoSlack on Jan-13-04 at 08:24 PM
In response to message #9
The 3141M is a direct replacement for the A13N147M unit you have. The 3141M-D claims it replaces the 3141M but doesn't give any Volvo cross ref numbers. take a close look at the mounts, they don't look right on the 61 amp unit.
http://www.mesmarine.com/products/al...arge/3141m.jpg
http://www.mesmarine.com/products/al...ge/3141m-d.jpg
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#11, RE: new alternator
Posted by Wizard on Jan-13-04 at 10:15 PM
In response to message #10
LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-04 AT 10:16 PM (PST)
Yes, I noticed the same thing. Also thought the terminals weren't right.
Anyhow, thanks again for all your help in this Mike. I am going to order the direct replacement and get this part on it's way so that this part of the project is a done deal.
I just ripped out all the bilge pumps, bilge pump switch and wiring tonight. It's all getting replaced. The peace of mind alone is going to be worth every dollar.
Dang, and going over the wiring was only one broad item on my to-do list.
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#12, RE: new alternator
Posted by Wizard on Jan-14-04 at 11:20 AM
In response to message #11
Hey Mike, ordered the original equipment one I listed above from MES (Marine Electric Supplier). http://www.mesmarine.com/3141m.html
$236.00 plus shipping. Not bad huh?
Glenn
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#13, RE: new alternator
Posted by NoSlack on Jan-14-04 at 12:13 PM
In response to message #12
It's amazing how much you can save on the same part without the green paint. Not sure what Volvo puts in that green paint but it sure drives the price up.
Mike
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#14, RE: new alternator
Posted by DOGHOUSE26 on Jan-14-04 at 04:16 PM
In response to message #13
Delco, I'm sure it's probably a better alternator than OEM!
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#15, RE: new alternator
Posted by NoSlack on Jan-14-04 at 08:06 PM
In response to message #14
LAST EDITED ON Jan-14-04 AT 08:08 PM (PST)
One thing to keep in mind when choosing an alternator is were your tach is getting it's signal. On the AQAD40 engines the tach gets it signal from a mag pickup. On Glenn's engine (42 series)he believes the tach comes off the alternator.
In that case the tach is reading the frequency of the AC voltage the alternator puts out. This frequency is a direct relationship to the speed the alternator is turning. Volvo uses a metric sized pulley and any US made alternator used a standard sized pulley like 2".
The difference in circumferance of the two pulleys may only be 4-5 percent but that works out to a 135-165 RPM error at 3300 RPM on your tach.
Just something to keep in mind when making the call on what to buy.
Mike
